Patriot Act used to charge BC Marijuana Terrorists

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Exerpted from the folowing article:


U.S. uses anti-terror law against B.C. pot suspects

Jeff Lee
Vancouver Sun

Friday, August 06, 2004

U.S. authorities are using the U.S. Patriot Act anti-terror law for the first time in Washington state to prosecute alleged marijuana smugglers, including several B.C. suspects who were caught in a major undercover operation involving nearly $3 million US in drug money.

A total of 24 people, including at least nine accused from the Lower Mainland, have been indicted in three related cases in which an undercover agent at times acted as a courier for people who wanted to smuggle drug proceeds back to B.C., according to indictments filed in the U.S. District Court in Seattle.

U.S. Customs, the Drug Enforcement Agency and the RCMP in Canada cooperated on a year-long undercover investigation to break up a drug-smuggling ring that was transporting hundreds of kilograms of B.C.-grown marijuana to the United States, and repatriating drug proceeds back to the Lower Mainland.

While such undercover operations aren't new, this case is unique because the U.S. district attorney's office resorted to using a provision in the U.S. Patriot Act in charging people with conspiracy to engage in bulk cash smuggling.

The American Civil Liberties Union, which is attempting to have the law amended, said it threatens basic constitutional rights and warns the act could be perverted for uses not originally contemplated. It argues the law gives law-enforcement agencies the right to conduct surveillance and detain people, and not have to report it.

Todd Greenberg, one of two assistant U.S. attorneys leading the case, said this is the first time the act has been used in Washington state against drug smugglers.

He said there is no evidence to suggest those indicted were involved in terrorist activities, and the case involves criminal drug dealing and money-smuggling. But he said the Patriot Act isn't just for anti-terror activities.

"The Patriot Act is not really confined to terrorist activity. This is a general criminal statute that can be used to investigate and prosecute terrorism and it could be used to investigate more traditional types of organized crime."

But Doug Honig, a spokesman for the Washington branch of the ACLU, said the case demonstrates the validity of civil rights groups' concerns that the Patriot Act is too broadly defined.

jefflee@png.canwest.com


WHAT IT MEANS; WHAT B.C. DID ABOUT IT:

The U.S. Patriot Act gives American authorities sweeping powers to secretly search homes, spy on the telephone and Internet communications of suspected terrorists, detain suspects and seize money or property of those supporting terrorism.

Passed by the U.S. Congress after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on New York and Washington, the act:

- Allows courts to issue secret orders requiring people to provide "tangible things," including personal information, to the FBI.

- Allows search warrants to be issued that carry no requirement to immediately inform property owners that searches have been made.

- Makes it illegal for people to take more than $10,000 US out of the country without reporting it and classifies doing so as bulk-cash smuggling.
- Allows the U.S. attorney-general to indefinitely detain, without trial, aliens suspected of involvement in terrorism, with no requirement to show evidence or explain his reasoning.

Supporters of the act say it is a necessary tradeoff to potentially save thousands of lives.

Critics say the law is reactionary, has little to do with fighting terrorism and violates Americans' constitutional rights to free speech and freedom from unreasonable search and seizure.

The Patriot Act sparked an investigation by the B.C. privacy commissioner to determine whether U.S. firms hired to administer the B.C. Medical Services Plan could be compelled by the act to disclose personal information about British Columbians in MSP files without the knowledge of the people whose information is sought.

Attorney-General Geoff Plant instituted rules for disclosure in B.C. in an attempt to curb what he called the Patriot Act's "very, very small risk" to the privacy of Canadians.
 

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United States law enforcement, especially at the federal level has been desperate to circumvent traditional consitutional restraints in order to better fight their ill-fated Drug War.

Thus the attempts in the 2002 Super Bowl advertising etal to link 'smoking pot to supporting terrorism'.

In fact, it is the federal policy of Prohibition which creates the possibility of drug dealing profits being redirected into terrrorist or other criminal enterprises.

We can note that legal drug dealers do not have that ability, thus another strong reason to legalize and regulate all drugs, instead of leaving a short list of a few to the control of criminals and cartels.
 

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barman, as usual, you make very very good points. The War on Drugs is clearly hurting the efforts in the War on Terror. Someone needs to make this point clearly and publicly to get policy moving in the right direction. Sadly, I don't expect this to happen anytime soon.
 

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Or we could try the Saudi Arabia approach. Somehow I think that that's too scary for you guys.
 

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The Saudi Arabia approach won't work when compared to legalization....

When the profit is taken out of an enterprise then traffic in that enterprise will also desist.....

I believe it was Dillinger, when asked as to why he robbed banks, stated "Because that's where the money is".....until the government looks at the drug war with practical eyes and realizes the futility of thier efforts it will be stuck with an unwinnable war, a war of criminal enterprises and huge profits, and related crimes from the production, distribution, and usage of drugs, all created merely by the fact that this is an outlawed behavior.

Criminals don't sell alcohol on the corner for exorbitant amounts of money because the common public can buy alcohol in liquor stores, gas stations, and most supermarkets.
 

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Kerry voted for the Patriot Act.

And since there wasn't a Part II, he couldn't vote against it!

Let's see how Wil turns this one around so that Bush made Kerry sign at gunpoint - this way he can claim we should repeal the 2nd amendment along with the Patriot act.
 

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Sad part is that something like the Patriot Act could be thrown into effect with little debate as to the reaching effects of its powers....

I see the Patriot Act clashing with a number of issues in the constitution, and the supreme court is going to be mired in cases pertaining to the conflict of interest these two documents represent

Whether Bush forced Kerry to sign is irrelevent....we should all ask ourselves how such an intrusive, undebated policy could be adopted so quickly. That is the scary thing.
 

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Marco - 911 is why it was adopted so quickly - and a healthy fear of repercussions from the electorate for those who'd vote against it.

To be perfectly honest, I like it! It's another weapon the cops can use against criminals.

I'd like to see a law enabling all adults over 21 to carry concealed firearms. You'd see us become a civil society overnight.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'd like to see a law enabling all adults over 21 to carry concealed firearms. You'd see us become a civil society overnight. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I carry mine about 80% of the time. 2 of the states in which I live have agreements with others states to honor one another's CCP's. I guess in MA it's not allowed? I believe Vermont (Howard Dean's stomping grounds) has a good policy in place (no permit required)
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I'll have to disagree about being a civil society because crime still happens where I live. The only difference is that if it threatens my existence
pow.gif
there would be one less person in this world.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The Saudi Arabia approach won't work when compared to legalization.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I apologize for the misunderstanding. My comment was intended as an alternative to the current policy of stern warnings and slaps on the wrist. I don't know if you do drugs or not but you'd have nothing to fear if you complied with the law. In Saudi Arabia, drug use is on the down low. Drug dealers can't be readily found (at least in the cities where I lived) because they were dead or more concerned with survival than to make a risky sale. Drug dealers there have to be 5 times smarter than a lot of these mom and pop dealers here in America.
 

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bblight....when you say it's another weapon the cops can use against criminals...

It would appear this is something the cops can use at thier own discretion on anyone whether they are a criminal or not....this is a weapon to be used in the creation of a police state, and you yourself may be strongarmed by it whether you approve of it or not, or whether you're guilty of a crime or not.

9/11 and the hysteria it provided is not a sound reason to just start carving up the constitution in a fit of panic.

I will agree with you on the concealed weapon idea...awful tough to mug someone when they might turn around and dump a clip into you...

Moneybags....I don't do drugs, and as far as having nothing to fear if you complied with the law....I have plenty more to fear by the fact that consensual crimes are outlawed than if they are legalized, regulated, and taxed. When you look at the actions of gangs and organized crime, and other individual participants, and all the crimes against people and property that go along with the fact that it is illegal....illegal and therefore creating a black market and inflated prices.....thus creating a need for criminality to maintain the flow of dollars, whether using or supplying..

I have a lot more to fear from someone with a habit of thousands a week breaking into my house or robbing me to sustain an unaffordable habit than I do fearing someone who can go down to the local store and pick the same product up at a reasonable, affordable price.

I have a lot more to fear of getting shot or having someone's kid get shot by some gangbangers doing a drive by shooting to protect thier turf from rival gang invasion, instigated by the realization of large profits involved by selling drugs.

There are numerous examples I could list, from cartel wars, political and judicial assassinations, bribery, corruption, robbery...not to mention the absolute billions of dollars spent on enforcement of drug laws, court time, judges, lawyers, prison costs, and then the fact that once released, the incarcerated drug user finds it tougher to find a job and go straight, and much easier to resort back to a life of crime. A life of crime that starts the cycle over again.

I have much more to fear by agreeing with a system that time and using the example of the prohibition of alcohol, has proven to be an absolute and utter failure. I'm spending way much more money and living in greater fear under the current policy that just creates more outlaws.
 

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Those same people that scare you would be corpses in droves in the beginning. They can't shoot you if they're dead.

I never saw the rival gangs in Saudi Arabia. Preservation of life is a motivating factor and there are people that would rather live than get high. Of course, there are always people that do their own thing but rest assured a good deal of those people don't live long enough to enjoy the fruits of their labor in Saudi Arabia. I'm not saying that Saudi Arabia is perfect I'm merely pointing out the effectiveness of actually pursuing and punishing people that violate your laws.
 

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Moneybags.....when you say "They can't shoot you if they're dead.".....

Take the money out of the equation and they don't shoot.

"I'm not saying that Saudi Arabia is perfect I'm merely pointing out the effectiveness of actually pursuing and punishing people that violate your laws."

In the U.S. effectively pursuing and punishing people who violate our laws consumes mass amounts of tax revenues. The difference between us and Saudi is that we have a complex protocol to follow that for the most part insures that peoples rights aren't violated, that people are innocent until proven guilty, and that people can have thier day in a court of law...and have appeals. It takes police, FBI, DEA, Coast Guard, customs agents,judges, lawyers, prisons and prison staffs, parole boards and parole officers.....All these sources use up billions of dollars in the pointless pursuit of protecting people from themselves....as is the case with consensual crimes, like drugs, gambling, and prostitution.

Not only are we spending multi-billions trying to win an unwinnable war, we create multiple black market enterprises that generate millions of taxfree dollars, and generate numerous crimes against people and property, crimes that would not exist if it was legal. On top of that, billions of dollars are lost by not legalizing it, regulating it, and properly taxing it. That's a HUGE swing in terms of dollars.

There is no effectiveness in pursuing and punishing people involved in the drug trade.

The alcohol wars in the days of prohibition ended with the end of prohibition. You won't find hoods on the street corner making one or two thousand a day peddling Budweiser, but they will make that kind of money selling crack and coke.....only because it's illegal.

If you want real effectiveness, take the money away by making it legal, bottom line.... it's that simple.
 

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What is the point of having a Constitution if so many people would prefer to go back to the days of the Wild West? Or why have it if some people think it is ok to use laws and rights selectively, on a "convenience" to law enforcement basis?
 

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Wildbill,

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> What is the point of having a Constitution if so many people would prefer to go back to the days of the Wild West? Or why have it if some people think it is ok to use laws and rights selectively, on a "convenience" to law enforcement basis? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps you should pose that question to the Founding Fathers.

Marco,

I have a strong desire for order. These endless appeals are a waste of time and money. You get a guy that kills a couple of people and gets 25 years of appeals. That's not right. Swift justice should be the only brand of justice. I'm all for a person being innocent until proven guilty and due process but after that, it's over. I do not support prisons. Waste of money.

You say it's an unwinnable war but I say it's a war of attrition. As drug dealers and abusers are wiped out there would be less suppliers and customers to go around and either the population would destroy itself or people would stop so as to preserve themselves.

I've seen drug abuse up close and personal. My family is a train wreck for the most part. I hope they sober up because there are family members that would cry at their funeral if they OD'ed.
 

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Moneybags....I agree with you in that I am in favor of the death penalty, but there has to be solid, irrefutable evidence of one's guilt....there has to be more evidence than one person pointing at someone and claiming "he did it"......as far as appeals, the appeals system is way too long and drawn out for my taste.

The drug war is an unwinnable war, decades of the same tired, useless policies have absolutely proven this ...there is too much money involved for this war to be won by any other means than legalization. For every drug dealer and user we put away, or as some would have it, execute....there are many more others willing to take thier place....dealers make millions of dollars because outlawing drugs has created an incredibly lucrative environment and an artificially created black market. You can fill all the prisons or try to wipe out all the participants, but the job will never get done because the root has not been taken away, that being: Money. Big money.

Drug use or abuse is a very personal issue, as are most issues concerning individual behavior. Some people drink too much, some smoke too much, some do too many drugs, others eat too much or eat fat, greasy cheeseburgers everyday and a few years down the road thier arteries need augered out...others have the other problem with anorexia...I could list hundreds of behaviors that are bad for one's health.

I'm not in favor of putting people in prison for drug offenses any more than I'm in favor of jailing fat people. It's all a matter of personal choice and freedoms, as long as someone else's property or person isn't harmed, what right does the government have to tell someone what they can or cannot do? Is the government going to jail fat people next, in thier next war to protect people from themselves?

Yes, some families will grieve if someone OD's....families can help the individual and plead with the individual to change his ways...maybe the guy drinks too much, gambles too much, or uses too many drugs. Whatever the choice is, in the end it's his choice that counts. We are all responsible for our own behavior.

We can fill prisons with drug offenders, prostitutes, gamblers......considering most prisons are already overcrowded, when one of these types gets put away in prison, the chance is they will have to let someone out to make room, and this someone who is let out is someone we have real reason to fear, that being a murderer, rapist, robber, or child molester. I would rather see a violent criminal be stuck in prison longer than to see someone who just wants to burnout take his place.

Who would you want released into your neighborhood to live.....a convicted child molester or someone who got his front door kicked in for smoking some weed or doing a line of coke?
 

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